people, a veritable ghost town with people warned to stay inside, lock their doors and open them to no one but the police. the threat to public safety very real in the hunt for a suspected terrorist who provoked a wild chase and fire fight last night. dramatic events began to unfold late thursday hours after their pictures were released by the fbi. just faces in the crowd then, their actions overnight revealed their identities and may have sealed their fate. first, the two men robbed a convenience store in cambridge not far from the home they shared with their mother. a security camera caught dzhokhar on tape. shortly after an m.i.t. security officer, 26-year-old sean collier, shot dead in his cruiser. then reports of a carjacking at gunpoint with the victim held in the car with the suspects for half an hour. driven around to atms and forced

to take out $800 in cash before his card was declined and he was dropped off unharmed at a gas station. at that point, the chase was on. with explosive devices reportedly thrown from the car by the suspects. in the shootout that ensued in watertown, elder brother, tamerlan tsarnaev got out of the car with explosives strapped to his chest, firing at police officers. at least one was hit and badly wounded. tamerlan was killed, with dzhokhar reportedly ramming the car through police to flee. and that's where we are this afternoon. with a 19-year-old suspected terrorist killer on the loose. and a city at a standstill. nbc news' national investigative correspondent michael isikoff joins us now from boston. mike, just start us off with exactly where this manhunt

stands at this very moment, because less than about 20 minutes ago, we understood that there were two suspects that the police were seeking. now we understand that's been reduced to just the one. >> reporter: right. just another example of how much misinformation has been in this case from the beginning. a lot of this is coming from police scanners, where police think as some point they have a suspect or person of interest and it turns out to wash out. just like we often get bum tips in the news business that never quite pan out. earlier today, we had picked up from police scanners that dzhokhar tsarnaev, the one everybody is looking for, might be just a few blocks down here at an office complex. a security sensor had been --

had tipped off that there was, authorities, there was some intrusion that led everybody to think he was there. cars were zooming down here with screaming lights, and that turned out to be a wash. so i think that's just another reminder of how cautious we have to be until we know for sure where things stand. what we do know is he's on the loose. we do know -- we don't know -- there's no confidence that they know where he is and whether or not he has any accomplices. that may be an open question at this point. and probably the biggest open question of all is whether there are any more explosive devices, any ieds out there that he's left to maim and kill people that they don't know about. one was found in boston earlier today, and that may be the scariest singleknow, though, th

police have been going door-to-door in this area all day. how far along do you think they are in securing the area? because as i understand it, at 12:30 when governor deval patrick spoke at the microphone, he talked about the fact and law enforcement talked about the fact that they'd been through about 60% to 70% of the entire area. i'm assuming that in the hours since then, it's now, of course, 4:05 eastern time, but they made progress close to 100%. >> reporter: yeah, but what's the area? remember, the entire city is in lockdown now. they have told everybody in boston not to leave their homes, not to open their doors, except to law enforcement officers. so while they might be able to inspect the immediate area around here in watertown, it seems a herculean task to be able to do that for the entire

metropolitan region that's essentially in lockdown right now. look, there's a massive police and military presence, actually, here, actually, it's right behind me, the staging area is right behind where i'm standing here at the parking lot of the watertown arsenal here. we've had early this morning convoys of military humvees, bus loads of police and state troopers coming in here and assembling for what we thought was going to be some sort of massive confrontation or assault here. we had blackhawk helicopters. i'm hearing another helicopter right now as we speak. so there's still plenty of police and military presence in the area, but being able to secure the entire city when they don't know whether there's other ieds out there, is going to be, as i said before, you know, quite a task. >> michael isikoff, mike, thanks

so much. do stay in contact with us. let's bring in nbc's erica hill who's also in watertown. as this manhunt is ongoing, we're hearing from some of the family. the suspect's uncle spoke earlier today. take a listen to what he had to say. >> what i think was behind it, big losers not being able to settle themselves. and thereby just hating everyone who did. >> erica, there's also reporting that his sister, the tsarnaev sister, sorry, who lives in new jersey says she hasn't been in frequent contact with her brothers but she says she's sorry for all the people who are hurt. what are the circumstances where you are at this moment? >> reporter: well, where we are right now is in watertown. just a quick note, too, on that essentially the statement that was given when the uncle came out in front of his house. i was actually at the airport when that happened. i was at jfk making my way to boston.

i can tell you, martin, at that moment nobody was talking in the airport. all eyes were focused on the television as everybody was listening to what the uncle had to say, saying he was ashamed. we heard some of what else he had to say. here in watertown, what we're seeing a lot of is what michael referenced. so we're seeing this very large police presence. we've seen s.w.a.t. vehicles in and out all day long. just about an hour ago they finish eed doing the house to house search on the street that's over my left shoulder here. when that happened i should point out, it was very calm, methodical. when they pulled up, there were three suvs as well as a couple k-9 units. they got out in full gear. three officers at a time it seemed would go up to a house. on their uniforms it said transit police. seemed to be having conversations. nothing really out of the ordinary. they definitely took time at each door. we saw a number of police officers who had one point amassed behind us, brought in on one of those public transit buses make their way down the street. they were told to line both sides of the street and stayed there calmly. we should point out not all of

those officers were wearing there vest their vests. as i look down the street, a few moments ago, i saw three police officers there though that house-to-house search does seem to be completed. a couple other things i want to update you on nbc news recently learned. seven ieds were apparently recovered in some of these house-to-house searches in watertown and in cambridge. also we're being told that in that gun battle that raged overnight, some 200 rounds were exchanged. the massachusetts state police is also noting that they will likely hold another briefing some time before 6:00 tonight, 6:00 p.m. eastern, obviously. and there's also been some talk from the state police there that the bombers were not the people who robbed that 7-eleven we heard so much about. there's a separate picture of that suspect. but they had gotten gas at a gas station elsewhere in cambridge and there are images of that as well. >> erica hill, thank you so much for joining us. we're joined now from washington by nbc news terrorism analyst,

roger cressey. roger, tell us for a moment, if you can, an chechen terrorism. because as i understand it, historically chechen terrorism has been much more related to national boundaries and geography as opposed to any kind of hatred for the united states. >> martin, that's exactly right. and i'm hesitant to even call this chechen terrorism yet. what i will call it is the act of two individuals in an act of terrorism. we simply don't know whether or not there are any real direct links. but in chechnya you've had two phases. a separatist movement since the end of the soviet union that over time has morphed into an islamist movement. in the past 15 years, elements of al qaeda have fought there. bin laden when he was still alive pledged public support to the islamists fighting there. and we saw even pre-9/11, an amalgamation of chechen fighters into al qaeda camps, et cetera.

it doesn't mean there were broad alliances or strong cooperation between both forces. it just means there was this interaction. so there -- if, in fact, there are direct links back to the chechen islamist movement, this will be the first time you've seen an attack on behalf of the checen islamist movement outside of russia. but we're a long ways from being there yet. >> and yet we do know that tamerlan, who was 26 and was killed, he had last year traveled back to russia for a considerable period of time. what do we think he was doing there? >> well, we -- the short answer is we don't know. and that's the job of the cia and the national security community working with russian liaison, with fsb, their version of fbi, sfr, their version of the cia, to try and develop a picture and understanding. who he met with, who he talked to, what type of activities.

it is possible that his radicalization happened here inside the united states. that this was all self-contained. just as it's possible that who he met with overseas during that six-month period triggered and led to the events that ultimately culminated in the attacks on monday in boston. >> and that is the case, isn't it? that in the past some of these acts of terrorism perpetrated by individuals living here have actually been trained in places like pakistan and afghanistan for a short period of time and then come here to expedite their evil as it were on the land of america. >> the most recent example, fisal s hirhisad, the times squ bomber. he was trained by the pakistani ca taliban, came back to the united states and attempted his attack which thankfully failed. we don't know if the brothers were involved in a chechen

separatist movement. we have no reason to conclude that just yet. that's what the investigation is going to play out. martin, i believe we're going to get a lot of information quickly. once the intelligence community has a lead, has that string to pull, you're going to see data come in fast and furious and we'll have a pretty comprehensive picture in the not too distant future. >> do you mean by that both their travel arrangements, details of their cell phones, their activity on line and potentially the individuals who may or may not have related to them and led or encouraged this kind of act? >> that's exactly right. the two things that terrorists do that give us a great advantage are they communicate and they travel. whenever that happens, they leave a trail, and we are fantastically good at following that trail. but there's still a lot of steps left in this investigation. not the least of which is bringing the younger brother to justice before we can draw any conclusions. >> roger cressey, nbc news terrorism analyst. thanks, roger. do stay with us. i'm joined by richard engel, of

course, nbc correspondent. have you been to chechnya, yourself? >> i have not. i've reported on the separatist movements but not spent time in chechnya. >> this nation over the last multiple decades has been a civil conflict and conflict with the nations around it. north ossetia and the russian government, itself. >> and it's also spilled over into dagestan. this is a separatist movement that has been clobbered by the russian government, by the russian military and gotten more and more extreme. people there have lost hope. they believe that the world has ignored them. it has often served as a recruiting symbol for people who want to go there and volunteer to fight the same way iraq became a recruiting zone for international volunteers who wanted to join the jihad, chechnya is also a place like that. >> i recall as you do the hostage siege in 2004.

1,100 hostages. 777 children. ending in the deaths of 380 people. and these were terrorists sent by shimel baziyef who demanded recognition for chech knnya. >> were these pure chehen separatists or an amalgamation? we don't exactly know because the one, the person who was assumed to be the ringleader in this, and counterterrorism officials i've been speaking with all day and intelligence officials think the older brother was the ringleader. he's the one who traveled. he's the one who expressed more maturity. people who know the two of them say the younger one was much more of a follower. according to an interview, the father gave to a russian newspaper, the older brother, 26, now dead, was married. he had a 3-year-old child. but he'd been effectively living as a stay-at-home dad.

you've been showing those boxing photographs all day. >> yes. >> very good amateur boxer. won golden globes at the state level. was going to a national championship. considered going pro. stopped doing it and was for the recent last year or so had been living at home unemployed and had become more and more radical. that's not according to the father, that's according to some of the internet posts and things like that. >> it's interesting that the younger brother had actually become an american citizen just last year. whereas the older brother, though older, was actually still in the process of seeking american citizenship. >> yeah, i don't know the route of where their paperwork was settled. from what i understand from the interview with the father, the older brother was married to an american woman and had a child so, therefore, maybe it wasn't as much of a priority for him to get the citizenship because his

child would have already had it. i don't know where he was in the immigration status. but what investigators, counterterrorism officials, are looking at, is if he wasn't necessarily part of a pure chechen rebel movement like the kinds we were talking about earlier but more of an al qaeda affiliate that incorporates chechens, some turks, a group that is effectively non-arabic speaking radicals that wouldn't join other, you know, taliban or other al qaeda-type movement. >> richard, to your very point, there is been reporting these brothers supported youtube videos which speak of the black banners which is this islami ii prophecy of an end time conflict between good and evil, in fact east versus west. this is something promoted by

bin laden in the past and by al qaeda. does that give us a hint, perhaps, these were more than just nationalists, just independent seeking chechens, these were impressed by international organization like al qaeda? >> i looked at that video today. it also talked about -- it's very anti-shiite. whenever you hear things that are anti-shiite, it generally means you're coming from a selafi jihadi mentality which is the same mentality of al qaeda and all of its different affiliates. the most likely group or the group that counterterrorism officials are looking at most closely is called the islamist jihad union. and it was a group that was, had a lot of chechens in it. it's currently based in the fatah region of pakistan. it has carried out attacks including suicide bombings in afghanistan against u.s. troops. primarily it has been trying to

recruit german nationals. it had some success recruiting germans germans, tried to carry out two attacks in germany including one at ramstein air base. the other at the airport in 2007. the german chairmgovernment knos organization quite well. that is a group u.s. intelligence officials are looking at more closely to see if particularly the older brother wasn't just inspired by the actions of this group and others like it, but whether he had real direct contact with them and was led by them, trained by them, and they're looking in particular at that six-month window when he was in russia. >> we've also found a slide show of the older brother's biography. there are a number of statements soer associated with them. there are three here. one says he was originally from chechnya but living in the united states since five years. tamerlan says, "i don't have a

single american friend, i don't understand them." then there's another that says tamerlan says "he doesn't usually take his shirt off so girls don't get bad ideas." "i'm very religious." another says "he doesn't drink or smoke anymore. god said no alcohol. a muslim, he says, there are no values anymore. people can't control themselves." is this part of that bin laden ethic that we saw so much of? contempt for a permissive west secularized west that he had such hatred for? and that great hypocrisy, of course, that these individuals end up seeking citizenship in this very great country and yet express such contempt for the freedoms we all enjoy? >> it's about a transformative process. we've interviewed through the course of the day in specials and ongoing coverage, many people who considered themselves if not friends, but people who

were familiar with the two suspects. and they described them in their earlier years as relatively outgoing, great athletes. polite. no one that would notice -- that would draw any kind of attention. and certainly the older brother didn't have a problem taking his shirt off in public before. he was a boxer. all the pictures we have of him looking athletic in his clothing standing there in shorts. later on, however, over the past two years, there's very few accounts of what these people were doing. and if you remember the uncle said that he hasn't been in touch with them for a long time. and he said that he doesn't allow his kids to hang out with their cousins anymore. he said they had been radicalized. so when they are radicalized, then their opinions tend to change. that's when we're seeing this more fundamentalist rejectionist type of mentality. where al qaeda believed that not

only were they islamist fundamentalists purists, but that everyone else was wrong. that they held a monopoly on the truth and that everyone else was living a life of falsehood that it was their duty to try to correct. so it's sort of an arrogance and a sense of mission, perhaps, that incorporates that feeling of disdain as well. >> richard engel, thank you so much for your expertise on this. thanks so much. joining us now, james cavanaugh, former hostage negotiator for the atf, and an msnbc analyst. good afternoon to you, sir. >> hello, martin. >> night will be falling soon. there is a possibility of rain. how much more difficult is it to do and continue the scale of this manhunt under the cover of darkness or does darkness give additional facilities to the law enforcement teams that are operating in boston? >> well, it's kind of a cuts both ways. you're exactly right.

you know, darkness is always on the minds of the tactical commanders. they're working through that. and they'll be able to work at night, but certainly prefer daylight. so they're going to try to squeeze that perimeter down and find white hat before dark. you know, the worst scenarios that can play for them now is that he's inside a house and he's holding someone. i mean, that would be not a good situation. that would be bad. and the second one would be that he slipped the perimeter. you know, i've had many fugitive hunts over almost four decades and i can remember one where the suspect shot a policeman and killed another and he was chased into a neighborhood. well, we brought law enforcement just like this out there, 500 troopers and agents and police and we thought we had him in this cordon neighborhood and squeezed and squeezed and squeezed down only to find out that he slipped it under cover of darkness and carjacked a car

and got away and so forth. so they can slip out. you think you got it tight down, but they can slip out. we don't know if we're there yet. they think he's in this area and they've got to squeeze it down and find him. and let's hope they do. >> indeed. what do you make of the news reported by our own pete williams? that the older brother, tamerlan, had a bomb strapped to him when he died? because we had two bombs at the marathon. we had a bomb tossed from a vehicle yesterday evening. we had a bomb strapped to this individual. i'm assuming that law enforcement believes that these two individuals have been working pretty hard at developing a series of these devices. ieds and so on. >> clearly, martin, it's a bombing campaign. i think -- >> it really is. >> that's what it was. i think if you listen to richard engel and roger cressey, they're giving you the great insight into the minds and the transformation process to become

a suicide bomber. and no matter what speculation, what information we don't have, the information we do have is suicide bombers. they have -- at least one had it strapped on their chest and another one. that's an incredible transformation, even a bomber, to be a suicide bomber. that was a major change. law enforcement killed him. now we may have a suicide bomber, you know, on the loose. so it's an interesting dynamic how they're transformed through this process. you know, what do they do when the law enforcement -- what does the fugitive do when law enforcement put their pictures out? we've done it many times over the years. you don't have choices, fight, flight or surrender. they fight, they fly or surrender. what do these guys do? fight and flight. they can't even decide to do. >> right. >> they're so discombobulated by

the fact law enforcement is now on their tail. they're fighting and they're fleeing. their plans were all messed up. >> when you look at their psychology, you talked just now about the distinction between individuals prepared to lay bombs then ratcheting that up to actually strapping a vest on with an explosive. what about the distinction between a willingness to kill ordinary members of the public then actually murder police officers? because we know that a police officer at m.i.t. was murdered last night and they shot at another and he's currently in hospital. >> right. last night they were just in such a mode of escape and mission and suicide that who knows what they were going to do. they didn't even know what they were going to do. when they came across the m.i.t. officer, he might have glanced at them and their eyes might have met and they might have just, you know, shot him and they were two and they outnumbered him. he's a hero. american hero. but martin, one of the parallels here that comes back to me all the time is the madrid bombing

case. because in that case, a lot of the bombs were placed on the transit system, and the al qaeda affiliated terrorists there, they didn't kill themselves until the police went to their apartment and then they blew themselves up when the police came. so i think in the madrid case, the bombing campaign would have went on and on and on. it doesn't mean that they're not willing to kill themselves and self-sacrifice in their mission for bin laden or his ilk. but if they can continue their bombing campaign, they can, you know, wreak more havoc and death. >> i understand that, james, but one of the things people have been asking, is having expedited their evil to the extent that they did on monday at the marathon finish, why did they stay in the area? i mean, surely that was a sufficient effect in terms of the deaths and the injuries for these people to feel as they they accomplished what they wanted. and even as far as their own

security's concerned. would they not flee from the scene? why would they still hang around in the area? >> well, they think they're too clever. they think they're smarter than law enforcement. this is a common criminal trait really. >> james, you say they think they're smarter than everyone else in law enforcement. but if ever there were multiple cameras at a scene, they would have been at the end of the boston marathon. and they placed the bombs there. so there was every possibility that they would be captured on tape as they have been in the images that we're showing. why would they not leave? >> well, they just thought that they wouldn't be caught. they thought their ball hats, they could walk, they maybe not were paying attention to cameras. they just thought they could get away with this. bombers have a way to think that the bomb distances them from the criminal act. and then they can lay it, that all the evidence will be destroyed and nobody's ever going to catch them. so i think they miscalculated. certainly they maybe were naive on the camera surveillance of

today. but they thought they'd get away with it. they were not expecting this to happen within a couple of days. >> final question, jim, for the moment. the individual, the youngest brother, dzhokhar, he, as we know, is on the loose. the police believe that they have him in a contained area. how does this end? i mean, obviously he's a font of information alive, but how does it end? >> well, he could be dead. you know, there's a report there was blood found and he may have been wounded in the huge shootout with the police, 200 rounds are fired. he could have been wounded and he could be dead under one of those houses or in garage back there. so he could have bled out. that's one possibility. he could have killed himself is another possibility. he could be hiding there with a bomb strapped on him that he may detonate when the agents and detectives and police surround him. or he may surrender. so that's -- or try to get through to cordon. that's about his options right

there, and that's about how it will play out. we'll see in the ensuing hours. you know, we knew when the pictures were put out that before the sun rose at the boston harbor, we had these guys. and there they are. so i think this is not going to take that much longer unless he slips to cordon then it's going to play longer. >> james cavanaugh for the moment. thanks so much, sir. >> thank you, martin. >> and we're joined now by nbc's michelle kosinski who's following the story from london. michelle, the father of the two brothers has spoken to the media and he sounded quite defensive about the accusations against his sons. even called one of them an angel. he said that he was -- the youngest son, dzhokhar, was an intelligent boy. what can you tell us about the father's comments? >> well, we saw actually two interviews that were done with the father, over the phone from dagestan today where he apparently returned because we know according to other sources, at least, that the family lived there for a short time. maybe about a year.

around 2001. so at some point the father returned to dagestan. we don't know if the sons ever went back there or how much contact he had. some of his statements were strange. i mean, he did defend his sons. at one point saying he thinks they were framed. and in relation to tamerlan, who was killed, he said, you know, weren't they supposed to take him alive? all hell will break loose if they kill my youngest son. but he was saying that his younger son was in his second year of medical school in the u.s. not true. he was 1 ye9 years old. he was an undergrad. also saying his older son was a three-time u.s. boxing champ and was famous in the u.s. so what his sons were telling him, how much contact he had, is really unknown. in terms of all these other family members that we've heard from from other parts of the world, some in the u.s., one in canada. i mean, this is a family that had been through a lot together.

they were refugees from kyrgyzstan to dagestan at one point. they got this chance to come to the u.s. together and really make it in life. nobody is really talking to each other. some of the family members said, several, in fact, said they hadn't talked to these two young men in years. some of them said that they were shocked by this. although how shocked can you be when during this formative period where a young man is shaping his future, you haven't spoken to him in several years? not really knowing what was going on in their lives other than what maybe they've heard years ago. so you know there was some kind of rift in the family. in fact, the two uncles that were interviewed today really spoke to that saying, well, there was trouble. i don't want to get into it. but we're not speaking to that side of the family. i think what was maybe most interesting was that the "boston globe" interviewed this man who said he was a cousin. the same age, in fact, as tamerlan. in dagestan. and he told the "globe" he was

worried about the older brother being a bad influence on the younger brother and didn't think he was a good person. was concerned about that. he actually warned the younger brother, or so he claims, martin. >> michelle, let's listen to uncle ruslan tsarni who spoke earlier today. >> dzhokhar, if you're alive, turn yourself in and ask for forgiveness. from the victims, from the injured. >> michelle, there you have the uncle expressing regret, sadness and asking them to hand themselves in. and yet an aunt of the suspects who was interviewed in toronto, canada, says "i don't trust the fbi. show me the evidence. i am used to being set up. i'm a chechen." >> yeah, and neither of these people, those two that you mentioned, and one that we heard from at length, had spoken to

these guys in years. so they want to obviously present their own -- their own views within what they're saying. i mean, you have that uncle -- it was a fascinating and stunningly strong statement against his nephews. at one point calling them losers. saying that they weren't able to settle themselves in the u.s. but then again, he didn't really know what was going on in their lives. the younger son according to friends who have come out, according to them saying that he was doing great. he was well liked, went to parties. seemed to be extremely well adjusted. i think one said he was the most well-adjusted guy on the wrestling team. he was in college. so doing well by many accounts, but then when you look at these internet postings attributed to them, you know, making links to sympathetic groups to the chechen separatist cause. what was really going on behind the scenes, obviously nobody

knows, but that uncle was saying they brought shame on their family and the entire chechen elt th ethnicity, they don't deserve to exist. he obviously wanting to get his own views out there so there's not a negative view of him or the rest of the people, part of the family that are in the united states. and this, again, is a large family. all of them with the chance, and obviously the intelligence, to make it in the u.s. and these two took that dark path. and obviously the family can't quite understand it, either. >> also, michelle, just to wrap up the family, the sister, elena tsarnaev who lives in new jersey said she hasn't been in frequent contact with her brothers, but she did say, i am sorry for all the people who are hurt. >> right. i think that was something that we weren't quite expecting because here's someone so close to them, came to the u.s. at the

same time according to people in dagestan. you know, went through all of that with them, but she hadn't spoken to them in years. she expressed the grief that we've heard from other members of the family also. the shock that someone who at some point, at least, was so close to her could be involved with something like that. and that's the question that's going to be here. it's interesting from a european perspective, this exact sort of situation has been a problem in europe for several years. to the point that europe has been trying to get its head around it. country by country. they've done their own studies as to why this is happening in such a, you would think, comfortable place. such a place that's different from where they were able to get out of. and what you find in this one study, for example, i'm reading, done by denmark a few years ago. they find there really isn't a common profile, but there are certain common factors.

radicalization often happens among well-educated people who have jobs and families. but it often started in teenage years when people are looking for a cause and they're frustrated with some part of their lives. martin? >> michelle kosinski in london. reporting on the family. thank you so much, michelle. and we're joined now by nbc's katie tur who's in watertown, massachusetts, where authorities have been searching for the suspect. and it's beginning, i guess, to close in. the day is beginning to come toward an end. >> reporter: well, certainly the weather is changing, martin. it's been a cloudy and windy day, sunny at times. relatively mild, though. now the weather is starting to change. we have been here for many, many hours. the authorities have been here for well on 15 hours. and saw the sun rise this morning and it looks like they might be here to see the sun set. they probably will be here to see the sun set. they've been knocking on doors all day long. at 12:30 when the last news conference happened, they said

they were well over 6 60% to 70 done combing this town. they still had not found anybody. we heard intermittent reports all day long of maybe there was a standoff somewhere within watertown. that, of course, has not been confirmed. we haven't heard anything in the last several hours. we've seen activity certainly. cop cars, military vehicles, military aircraft, police helicopters circling, coming and going, but we haven't heard any major developments. the last major thing we heard was kerry sanders being pushed back around 12:30 or so earlier today. it's quiet here. people have been inside for the entire day. they've been inside since last night. we've seen very few people on the street here. we are in the middle of what you could call main street or the downtown part of watertown. the main area. the entire day we have been here, we've only seen maybe 5, 10, 12 people from the town come out and see what's going on. everybody is voluntarily --

they're on lockdown, so they're supposed to stay inside, but everybody is staying inside. we did see somebody come to their balcony earlier as the cops were walking by and doing their rounds and they were told to go back inside. it's anxious here. it's certainly anxious. it's been anxious all day long. you can tell it's anxious because we haven't had people come out. there's been so few, or no situations where you have gaggles and masses of news media and don't have people coming by to see what's going on. the fact everybody has stayed inside speaks to just how nervous this situation is. and just how much respect they're giving the local, state and federal authorities to do their business. as of now, nobody in custody here. they are still looking for the second suspect. they have not found him yet from what we believe. there was a lot of belief that he was here in watertown and there's a very large presence here. so there is reason to believe they do still think he is here. but, again, the entire city and all these suburbs if they're not on lockdown, they're in a

shelter order. so everybody has been told across boston to stay inside. this is an unprecedented event. and it's certainly a very eery experience to be out here and only see other reporters. >> katie, given the fact law enforcement and the authorities said around 12:30 that they'd combed through about 60% to 70% of the area they were concerned about, is it possible, is anybody suggesting that this 19-year-old suspect, that he may not be there? that he may have left the area? >> reporter: it is certainly possible. i think everybody knows that that is a possibility. but i will say the presence here has been so large that i'm going to assume, i'm going to go out on a limb and say it seems like they probably do think he's still here. nobody is saying definitively he is here. that's why there's so much concern across the city. that's why there are no -- that's why there's no amtrak service between boston and new york. they're putting out alerts to look for cars. that's why there's a no-fly

stone. a number of reasons why they think he is here, but also, of course, a strong possibility he's not, that he managed to escape, managed to get out of this area. >> katy tur, thank you for your reporting. let's bring in michael leiter of, an nbc news terrorism expert. good afternoon, mike. what do you make of these possible connections between the two brothers and chechnyan terrorists? >> what we really know their ethnic is chechen. the one brother has traveled to chechnya. we really, really can't go down the road yet of assuming, even assessing is likely, that they were, in fact, linked to chechen group such as the islamic jihad union, iju. that really is premature. i think probably more likely at

this point is the older brother might possibly at least have seen something in the relationship between chechnya and russia, the struggling chechnya, that drove him in a direction of extremism. that's more likely. but i would say the direct connection too early to say. >> because up to this point, chechen independence movements, chechen terrorists have been concerned about the location, the geography, of their own nation. that didn't previously involve the united states of america. >> that's absolutely right, and i think that's another reason why a direct connection from a chechen terrorist group in terms of directing an attack is, for my perspective, an unlikely scenario. we have seen chechens fighting elsewhere with al qaeda and other extremist groups aligned with al qaeda outside of chechnya. that is not uncommon. but chechen groups, themselves,

pointing attacks outside of russia really has not been their priority. we should note chechen separatist groups, there subelements of those that, again, aligned themselves with sunni islamist extremism. that's the exception rather than the rule. >> talk to us, if you can, about the profile of the suspect now on the run. how surprised are you that a 19-year-old, who apparently had plenty of friends, participated in school sports, was good enough to get a $2,500 scholarship, would be radicalized in this way? >> well, i would just say that right now we're operating under the assumption he was radicalized. i think that's probably the most likely outcome, but we don't know that. that being said -- >> even if he hasn't been radicalized -- he desired to perpetrate the murder of americans. >> that's absolutely right. either way he was a violent extremist. exactly what the cause was, we don't yet know. frankly, i don't find that profile particularly surprising. if we look back as is previously noted, the times square bomber,

actually very successful here in the united states. was here for 13-plus years. had a master's degree, an mba. married. two kids. if we look at other individuals who had been arrested by the fbi, for domestic extremism, the ft. dix plot in 2004. that involved three brothers. so we have another situation where brothers were involved in a terrorist plot. so although people might expect folks who have become terrorists fit a certain profile. many who have been radicalized in the west through a number of causes actually come from relatively stable backgrounds but almost all of them have reached some crisis point looking for something larger than themselves. some mission larger than themselves. and often that need is filled through violent action. >> michael, final question, if i can. they were, if you like, sorry to

use the term, successful in detonating those devices at the end of the boston marathon. they tossed one out of the vehicle. they fire and murder a police officer. what is the extent of their mission? i mean, is this a mission that was supposed to continue for weeks? >> hard to say. the mission was to kill. i do think the fact they stayed in the area suggests that there's at least a possibility that they wanted to keep going. they wanted to do more. so a lot of their success came from the simplicity of their tactics. and there is sophistication in simplicity, and in this case, the fact that they knew they could build simple bombs, they understood the dynamics of the boston marathon. they potentially understood what the security precautions would be. these guys were really thinking about this. they had plotted this out. and they certainly were relatively sophisticated in how they thought about the best way

to kill innocent individuals. >> michael leiter, thanks so much for joining us, mike. earlier today the president met with his national security team to discuss the latest information on the boston marathon bombings. for more let's two to ogo to ou kristen welker at the white house. i'd like to show everyone this picture the white house added to its flickr page, the president meeting with his national security team, fbi director robert muller, attorney general eric holder, vice president joe biden. is the white house saying anything about the connection between these two brothers, chechen rebels, al qaeda, any other terrorist organizations? >> reporter: well, martin, i have to be honest with you, they are not saying a whole lot of anything today in large part because the white house, the president wants to be very careful, cautious and deliberate before they weigh in on this matter. because it is an evolving situation. what i can tell you is that the

president has been briefed regularly overnight and then throughout the day. overnight by lisa montaco, department of homeland adviser, who is also pictured there which you just showed. as you mentioned, he held that meeting with his entire national security team. it lasted for about an hour. it took place in the situation room. during that meeting, his top advisers briefed him on really the stunning developments that unfolded overnight in boston. this is really what we have seen from the white house throughout this entire week. we're getting regular updates about the president's briefing schedule. we've heard from him three times. remember monday, on tuesday when he officially declared this a terrorist attack. of course, we heard from him yesterday during the interfaith service in boston. we have not heard from jay carney today. he postponed his briefing. at this point in time we don't

expect him to only out until we get information on where that suspect actually is. martin? >> kristen welker, live at the white house. let's turn now to dan bor fwrgi former secret service. also joining us, frank solufo, associate vice president of george washington university and director of gw's homeland security policy institute. good afternoon, gentlemen. frank, the stage for today's dramatic events was set monday on boylston street in boston. but the roots of this story may possibly go back all the way to the other side of the globe to chechnya. now, authorities say the two suspects in this case traced their origins back to this land in southern russia which has been involved in a violent rebellion against the government in moscow, what, for many years, hasn't it? >> absolutely. i mean, as we've heard throughout the day, there are a lot of unknowns at this point, but there are some knowns.

i mean, we do know the fact chechnya has been a cauldron of islamist and jihadi activity for quite some time. we know they've been involved in a separatist movement to try to gain independence from russia since the early '90s and been engaged in heinous terrorist activities including the killing of numerous children in the beslan attack. we also know some in chechnya have ascribed and subscribed the broader global jihad. so here you have other jihadi organizations trying to co-opt the local movements to broader global set of objectives. we also know there have been chechen foreign fighters who have fought alongside iju, the islamic movement of uzbekistan, and elsewhere. we also know there have been 60-plus plots in the united states of islamist flavor that have been either prevented or, unfortunately, successful. so there are some knowns. i wouldn't jump to conclusions

at this point as to where they were radicalized, but unfortunately, there's a tract record here in the past and hopefully the authorities can pull the threat on this real soon. >> indeed. dan, we don't know what the motives were in this case, but you, yourself, worked with russian intelligence. you worked with the successor to the soviet union's kgb. what do russian spies, the russian authorities, what do they say about these chechen groups? >> well, obviously their propensity for catastrophic violence is known. frank brought up some good examples. the bravka theater, you have breslan. this is a situation, though. the key point he brings up, were they self-radicalized? in other words, an independent franchise opportunity? they were looking for some higher cause? or was this a recruited -- were they recruited into the ideological cause by someone else? that's the key distinction i think we have to get to the bottom of to determine motive because it's two completely

different investigative avenue if that's the case. >> and yet, dan, these individuals had spent most of the recent past in this country. something like ten years. where was this radicalization taking place? >> i think one of the key pieces of investigative information coming out, we're going to need confirmation on that travel history and what that travel history was on the now deceased brother. that could lead to some very interesting investigative clues as to who he met with, why he met with them and what was the purpose? was it a training exercise? we can only speculate at this point. we don't know. that's going to be the key piece of information that could break this investigation wide open. >> you're talking about the six months that tamerlan tsarnaev spent in russia last year? >> yes, that's right. absolutely. >> martin, if i could underscore -- >> please. >> -- i mean, there have been cases. even, we heard a lot about fisal

shizad. also others. he was discreetly and discriminately turned around to say you're of greater value to attack the homeland, our country. that is something when you look at training, obviously it's too early to tell, but those are some of the big differentiators that i think are most important. when you asked where are they radicalized? some overseas. why yemen? why the magrehb? why fougatah? these are under-governed places. another under-governed place is the internet. we need to go far beyond kinetic instruments which are critical of taking out the leaders of these organizations but also the

ideological bankrupt -- >> you can go on internet and find out how to construct a pressure cooker bomb. you can read endless stories full of hatred for the west, full of hatred for what they deem to be a per missive and secular society. all of that is there in front of you. you don't need to go back to russia for six months to be poisoned by this stuff, do you? >> you're right, martin. the difference is the trade craft sophistication. if you're learning it from reading "inspire" magazine and making it in your mother's kitchen, can it be done? absolutely. if you're being trained by someone who is a hardened bomb maker, that's a very different thing. and those are very dangerous individuals. so that's all that i was making on the foreign connection. >> understood. dan, final question to you. we've had numerous members of this family stand up and say they don't believe the fbi. they don't believe it's possible

that these two young men could have been involved in something like this. how should we treat the testimony of family relatives? >> yeah, i think the investigative value to the two relatives that have come out at least publicly and made statements is minimal at best. although it was emotional, there was clearly anxiety, worry, passion, anger. one of them had mentioned, i think it was the uncle who said he hadn't spoken to them for ten years at one point. michelle kosinski said the information the father seemed to have seemed to borderline on absurd. the level of contact i think might have been minimal. i don't thing there's much investigate ef material to it at all at this point. >> thanks, gentlemen, so much. let's go back now to michael isikoff still on the scene in watertown. the weather is changing, the day is growing long. is there a sense on the ground there may be a break in this case before the day is through? what's your assessment? >> reporter: no sense at all.

our latest invest, and we spoke about this earlier today, but -- earlier in the hour. our latest information is there is no other accomplice they're looking for right now. they're looking for one guy. dzhokhar tsarnaev. they're concerned he might have slipped past their drag net. they don't know where he is right now. the manhunt continues. we've got no update on his whereabouts. a few other additional details we've learn ed lately so far they've found seven ieds. some here in watertown. some at the house in cambridge. and they're still looking to see if there are others. so seven ieds seems to be a fairly substantial number. one other fact that's emerged in that fire fight earlier today, there was something like 200 rounds that were fired.

which gives you an idea of the idea of that fire fight. >> some hours ago, in fact at the press conference at 12:30, we were told there was going to be some kind of controlled explosion at the property in cambridge, massachusetts. what do you know about that? because as far as i know, and i've been checking everything -- >> reporter: i believe it's a plac taken place. >> oh? >> reporter: some hours ago. you know, we're waiting for a -- you know, we're waiting for that briefing that we were promised. and we haven't gotten it. we'll just, you know, there's still so many questions unanswered and it may be the fact we haven't gotten the briefing is they're not prepared to answer questions yet. i don't think they want to answer a lot of questions until they really can provide answers and reassure the public that this guy has been caught. can i just pick up on some of the discussion you were having --

>> please do. >> reporter: -- earlier, martin, about the timeline of the radicalization of these brothers. we referred earlier to those travel records that jonathan dienst uncovered showing that six-month period that tamerlan tsarnaev, the older brother was out of the country, left for russia. we don't know where in russia he went. we don't know who he met with. but we do know it was just a month after he returned that a youtube account was created in his name that was filled with all sorts of radical islamic postings and videos about an ultimate battle between an islamic army from kurzan, which is central asia, defeating in an armageddon-like struggle. a clear indication that the

radicalization took place while he was abroad. in fact, we heard the uncle speaking to reporters earlier today saying that these were good kids and somebody radicalized them. so i think that's going to be a major question that u.s. authorities and congressional investigators are going to be asking in the weeks and months after this is all over. what happened here? how did these two kids who grew up almost entirely in the united states become radicalized and come to hate americans? and who radicalized them? who played that role? >> and that was just a month after he returned, the elder brother, tamerlan, 26 years of age, returned last year after spending six months in russia. then within four weeks, he's posting things that depict the prophecy. this jihadist prophecy of a good

versus evil fight, struggle, whatever you want to call it. >> reporter: right. right. and, you know, look, when this started, the day of the bombing, itself, we were all puzzled and the big question that everybody was asking was was this domestic or was it international? was it a militia type inspired by the anniversaries of waco and oklahoma city? or was it radical jihadis? well, we're beginning -- ihi